The debate continues

(Please feel free to add to this debate through the comments box!  Several people have!)

Stephen has added a comment to my post Real Men don’t cheat. So my question is: Can a weak man learn to become a Real Man? I am finding this very interesting. Given what happened to my marriage! Can men learn to become Real Men? Can they ‘let go’ of all the things that caused them to behave in the terrible, deceitful way, to run, to cheat, to behave in such a low, self-pitying manner and actually work at turning themselves around?  Can they ‘stand up and be counted’. Look the world in the eye and really and honestly commit with determination and passion to becoming who they say they want to be.

Or are they too scared of admitting they were wrong.  And it’s all easier to live in the comfort of being weak.  After all there are women ‘out there’ who think that being in charge and dominant, domineering and controlling is the thing to be in this age of equality.  Some relish being so.  So weak men can continue to be weak and marginally unhappy, and spend their lives wondering why things aren’t quite right.

I know what I’m talking about as Alex ‘pushed’ me into that role. A role I truly didn’t want or enjoy.  A role I don’t want to end up in again.

By the way, just to be clear, I’m not expecting Alex to change! And if he actually did really commit, with the passion and determination I believe he would need, to becoming a real man it is by no means certain that I would even consider a life with him again. I don’t actually think he’s got it in him to do so! And what I want – what I really, really want(!) is a REAL MAN!  Because I rather fancy being a REAL WOMAN!!

9 thoughts on “The debate continues

  1. I think, if we accept, that undertaking a course of coaching as you are doing so bravely with the understanding that at the end of it you will emerge as a more reconsiled and complete person the expectation will be that a man is as capable of doing that as a women, so the answer is, though the road is difficult, it can be walked by a person of either sex. You should never give up on yourself, and equally always give others the chance to do the same. That many fail to do so is a continued sadness but the possibility remains.

    • I agree with you. One should never give up on oneself. Something I’ve learnt over the last 10 months – even when I ‘fought against’ what I was being taught. And fight I did!! There have been times when I could have ‘killed’ Stephen!!! I have railed against him, the world and Alex – as I wanted to hang on to the ‘me’ that didn’t work.

      But I am still me. Hopefully now a better version of me.

      Could Alex do the same. I don’t know. He has to want to and to want to with a passion and a determination that pushes you through the tough times and forces you to keep going rather than give up. I’m not praising me. I am just acknowledging that for some the process is not an easy one. For some it is – they grasp it quickly and with enthusiasm. I didn’t. But I’m still glad I did it – am still doing it!

      I’m not there yet but I’m definitely on my way!

  2. I know you say that you don’t expect Alex to change. But I’m guessing a part of you wishes he did/does. Which leads me to the age old saying: “Women marry men hoping they will change; Men marry woman hoping they will not. So each is inevitably disappointed.”

    • Hi
      I don’t know if I would take him back anymore. I actually don’t believe he is happy and I believe he did want to sort himself out. He said he did. If he went back to the man I married and who looked after me so stunningly well – when we were out of the country and on our travels – if he could be like the person he was then – but all of the time, then I’d have to give it a great deal of thought. I do know now he’d have to fight to get me back like he’s never fought for anything in his entire life. He’d have to – to have that possible chance of convincing me he meant it. Then we would have to get help to mend the damage he’s caused. Because now 2nd best is not an option.

      He has to become the Real Man he truly said he wants to be!

      So all in all – I think I can safely say – this won’t happen.

  3. Can a weak man learn how to be a real man…

    The simple answer is yes and no, because the man who is weak / fearful has to accept he’s in that place and see the merits of making the change. If the man is too fearful to even consider a change then he will fight to stay where he is because of his perception, it’s what he knows, and so it must be safer.

    This is his illusion… on his journey to destruction…

    In other words he has to want to change!

    Depending on the power of the conditioning the man has received growing up and how that works with his core fears, this will craft his responses and openness to change.

    So I can see and totally respect why everyone will experience a different point of view.

    Leverage is the key to change in this context. Attach enough pain to him “not changing” and watch the real man come flying out.

    • Wanting to change is what finally pushed me through the wall of fear. Whether women are better at this than men I can’t say – I don’t know enough about it. And given my reluctance and fight to stay as I was I do agree the ‘pain’ has to be severe!

      As to whether Alex will ever want to change enough – who knows. I do know that for a while – when he first left he really did want to change. He said he did and he was in a very dark place. I think though that by seeking refuge with someone new he thinks he has solved his problems so needs do no more about it. Time will show if he is right or not. And time shouldn’t be wasted by ‘barking up the wrong tree’

  4. Oh Caroline I have hesitated to join in this but for what it is worth I just need to say that equality you refer to in your post has absolutely nothing to do with women being dominant, domineering or controlling nor has it with men either. I also think that relationships have nothing to do with men being weak or ‘real’ or even ‘cheaters’. It may just be the language being used but at the end of the day we can’t change anyone but ourselves however much we we think that is the key to our happiness or however much we wish we could. Focusing on ourselves and our own behaviour may bring more happiness in our future relationships – others will get there if their own personal journey leads them that way – in the meantime enjoy your own!

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